The Ultimate Legal Fix For Online Violence
Video Transcript
Ray Hrdlicka – Host – Attorneys.Media
Hi, this is Ray Hrdlicka with Attorneys.Media, Legal Commentary Interview, and today we have Steve Gacovino, a personal injury attorney in Long Island, New York, who specializes in social media youth harm litigation.
And there are, of course, other types of personal injury law, but we’re going to talk about that—social media youth harm litigation, in regards to today’s current events.
And, in fact, Steve practices all over the nation, so that’s why this is important to today‘s news.
So, Steve, there has been an incredible amount of news coverage about violence in today’s world.
And it’s come to light that a lot of these assailants have spent time on social media and, or specifically, gaming.
What I want to mention here, bring up to you, is this question.
It was just recently a shooter in Dallas, Texas, and it was determined that he spent 17,000 hours of gaming time in his history.
And I think about that, and I’m going, 17,000 hours? You’ve got a little over 2,000 hours in a work year, and he’s only 25 years old. So what has that done?
So my question is, as soon as things like that happen, everybody talks about what can we do to fix it, all right? I’m not talking about the political end of things.
I’m talking about, let’s say, the legislative end of things that can be used to prevent the violence.
And the reason I bring this up is you’re an attorney, and your profession in its actions actually causes changes, you know, in lawsuits and litigation.
I know that you’ve been doing this for quite some time.
So, lets just have this conversation here. What can you, with your experience, tell us that could be done legislatively to help this situation?
Steven Gacovino – Personal Injury Attorney – Suffolk County (Long Island), NY
Well, thank you for the question. Thanks for having me on, Ray.
But I understand what you’re talking about.
And it is, of course, not my place to say that there’s causation between exposure to gaming and violent activities.
All we can do universally is condemn violent activities, of course, however, wherever it comes from.
So it’s, again, hard for me to speak to causation, especially about one particularly disturbed individual that you’re bringing up.
But what we do know, by and large, is that young people are exposed to a ton of screen time, whether that’s on social media, gaming platforms, Roblox, whatever it might be.
There is a ton of time that young people—and quite frankly, older people too—are exposed to with regard to the screen.
It would be hard to deny that it has some effect on people.
But in particular, it’s the algorithms… algorithms, algorithms that pound away at the individuals that are on that screen to get more information and more content that that algorithm believes will keep them engaged.
That is what these things are designed to do.
Ray Hrdlicka – Host – Attorneys.Media
So, you’re talking about an addiction, essentially.
Steven Gacovino – Personal Injury Attorney – Suffolk County (Long Island), NY
Potentially an addiction, but certainly something that’s intended, because I don’t know that I can say there’s any medical term of “social media addiction.”
However, I have heard psychiatrists and psychologists use that term.
There’s no medical code right now.
There is a gaming addiction code in the medical profession.
So, with that, the point is that—whatever the content might be—I always say, listen, it could be puppy dogs and butterflies, stuff that you would think is benign.
If it’s keeping that individual there, the algorithm is always trying to figure out who you are and what you’re going to respond to.
And if it is benign stuff, okay, that’s one thing.
On the other hand, it could be something that’s very dangerous.
It could be something that’s misinformative.
It could be violent imagery.
It could be something that feeds into the idea of self-harm.
It could be pornography.
Whatever it is, it might drive somebody towards something that’s going to keep them there.
And is it doing something to the human brain? I think that that’s the big question.
My personal belief, and from what I’ve seen and from the people that we’ve litigated on behalf of, we see that there is an absolute association between what is happening on social media and some mental problems that people are having.
We are seeing an increase in young people being hospitalized for suicide, attempted suicide.
We see more and more diagnoses of depression, anxiety, anorexia, bulimia, and we believe it’s very much born out of exposure to the content that they’re seeing on their screens, that they’re getting pounded with over and over and over.
I see what you’re talking about with regard to incidents of violence, but what I think I can speak to is that it is affecting people.
Ray Hrdlicka – Host – Attorneys.Media
So, what I hear you saying is that the content doesn’t really matter.
Steven Gacovino – Personal Injury Attorney – Suffolk County (Long Island), NY
I mean, it does, but first, the first step is, as you mentioned, the algorithm taking that content, continuing to provide it to the viewer, the user, and creates this—well, I used the word addiction earlier, I don’t want to use it again—but creates this need to keep on screen time. And it’s being fed by the interest.
It’s kind of like a perpetual wheel.
The more I want, the more I’m going to get.
And it’s always learning.
It’s trying to figure out exactly who that user is.
So everybody’s reality is sort of their own personal bubble, with respect to social media.
They’re looking at you and saying, “What is going to get them to stay here? What are they going to respond to next?”
So, as it gets better at figuring out who you are, they’re getting what they want, which is more engagement.
An engaged consumer is exactly what they’re trying to sell.
So, you know, they’re selling advertising, they’re selling all kinds of stuff.
So figuring out who you are and how to keep you engaged is invaluable to these companies.
Ray Hrdlicka – Host – Attorneys.Media
So, your litigation— is there, from the other side’s point of view, something that they can do that would be part of a solution in your litigation?
Steven Gacovino – Personal Injury Attorney – Suffolk County (Long Island), NY
Look, I’ll give you my opinion, and by no means am I a technological…
Ray Hrdlicka – Host – Attorneys.Media
That’s why we’re talking here. It’s a commentary.
Steven Gacovino – Personal Injury Attorney – Suffolk County (Long Island), NY
Just in the way that they’re able to keep you there and they’re going to continue to pound you with content over and over and over. The algorithm is pounding you with content.
You’re not asking for something; you’ve asked for maybe one thing and then you’ve gotten a thousand things that just keep on coming.
But, just in the way you can do that, I’m sure it can be designed to stop at a certain place, where there could be some sort of baked-in warning to say, “Hey, this is deleterious content. This is misinformative content. This is dangerous content. This is violent content. We know that this is a young person. Let’s cut it off.”
So, I believe that it could be designed to do that. If it can’t be, they should be developing it because I don’t know if these are acts of omission or commission, however it gets there, but I do know that they’re focused on engagement.
And, it seems to me—my observation—engagement at any and all costs, or at least most costs, because I think it would be hard for them to deny that harmful things are happening here, and that they do have an effect.
I’ve heard them deny it. I’ve heard tech leaders get on TV and say, “Oh, the reason for this” or “the reason for that is something else.”
But no matter what those underlying causes may be in anybody’s individual life, if they’re suffering from any kind of mental ailment, it looks to me that social media is certainly gasoline on that fire, and it does make it worse.
Ray Hrdlicka – Host – Attorneys.Media
I totally understand and agree with you.
We’ll have you back because this is going to be an ongoing issue politically, legislatively, litigation-wise.
It’s going to be ongoing until there are some sort of changes and we’ll discuss those changes as time goes on.
Thank you very much for spending time with us today.
We’ll have you on again. All right.
Steven Gacovino – Personal Injury Attorney – Suffolk County (Long Island), NY
Thank you, Ray. Good to speak with you.
Additional Information:
- Federal Laws & Online Harassment – PEN America Field Manual
- 18 U.S.C. § 875 – Interstate Communications – Cornell Law School
- State Laws & Online Harassment – PEN America Field Manual
- Cyberbullying Report Resources – StopBullying.gov
- California Electronic Cyber Harassment Law – Penal Code 653.2
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